Osho,
No country, not even America, is as upset as the Germans at your presence in the world
today, and at your influence on intelligent and creative people. They are trying hard to
see you as another Hitler. What does that tell about the German mind, forty years after
Hitler's death?
The ghost of Adolf Hitler, his long shadow, is still present. And Adolf Hitler is not
something that you can confine to one person. It is something deep down in the German mind
itself. Adolf Hitler would not have existed if the German mind had not been supportive of
him. And not only ordinary people -- who can be easily influenced, impressed -- but many
exceptional people: geniuses like Heidegger, who is certainly the most important
philosopher of the twentieth century, he was a follower of Adolf Hitler.
What these people were seeing in Adolf Hitler was something that was in themselves. In
Adolf Hitler it was magnified. In themselves they could not see it, but Adolf Hitler
became the mirror; they could see it, and he became the representative of the collective
unconscious mind of Germany. Hence, the influence that he had.
Although forty years have passed, the German mind is still the same. And when they see
my influence on people they become afraid, for the simple reason that if I can influence
so many young intelligent German people, I can paint the whole of Germany red. And Germany
has suffered through Adolf Hitler's influence so much, the wound is still there and it
hurts. They don't know much about me. All they know is that thousands of young Germans are
ready to die for me. To their knowledge, this phenomenon had happened only with Adolf
Hitler. In the same way, thousands and thousands of people were ready to die for him, to
do anything for him. So they see a certain similarity. But there is no similarity at all.
I teach people to live for me, not to die for me. I teach people to dance for me, not
to die for me. All your so-called great leaders of the world have told their people that
they should be ready to die for them. That was thought to be something of great pride. And
certainly millions have died for idiots. They died, they killed, all kinds of neurosis was
released by these so-called leaders.
I am not a leader. I am not a politician. I insist to my people to live long, to live
happily, to rejoice. Even if I die, celebrate it. Nobody has ever said to his people,
"When I die you rejoice and celebrate, sing and dance." In thousands of years
not a single man has been there to say this. They were just saying, "Be ready. If you
love me, be ready to die for me, because we are going to conquer lands, conquer the whole
world. If you are not ready to die for me, you are a coward, and then how are you going to
conquer the world?"
I have a different way of conquering the world. I don't need nuclear weapons, atom
bombs. I have a different approach totally. And they have all failed. None of them could
conquer the whole world, neither Alexander the Great, nor Napoleon Bonaparte, Ivan the
Terrible, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mussolini, nor Mao Tse-tung. They all have, without
exception, failed, because this is not the way to conquer. Hate is not the way to conquer.
It will destroy the other, and in consequence it will destroy you too. Your victory is
going to be just a very passing phase.
I say to my people: Yes, we are going to take over the world -- by our rejoicing, by
our love, by our peace, serenity, by our meditation. We are not politicians. We are not
going to rule them. In fact, we are going to teach everybody not to be ruled by anyone and
not to rule anyone. Only then are you really an authentic human being.
My influence on German people is exactly the opposite of Adolf Hitler's.
But influence is there, and those who don't know me can find a certain similarity.
Those who know will find that the influence is there, in fact it is far greater than Adolf
Hitler's.
And it is not me who is saying it. One of the most important Western journalists,
author of many significant books, Aubrey Menen, wrote a book almost ten years ago about
the new mystics. He put my picture on the cover. The book was published by Thames and
Hudson in London. What he said inside, even I could not believe. He said, "I have
seen Adolf Hitler, interviewed Adolf Hitler, I have listened to Adolf Hitler in a meeting
sitting in the front row, and I have seen his tremendous influence on people, but it is
nothing compared to Osho." His influence, he says, was only that of oratory, there
was no substance in it. Those people were enchanted because their egos were fulfilled. He
was saying to those people that you are the highest race amongst human beings. You are the
purest Nordic Aryans. It is your birthright to rule all over the world.
Naturally, all those who had ambitions, ego trips, were influenced. Here is a man who
can manage to fulfill their hidden desire. They themselves, of course, cannot manage, it
is too big. Aubrey Menen says that people were influenced, but that influence was
something sick. It was fulfilling their egos.
The people who are influenced by me are totally different. I am making every effort to
destroy your ego. And to destroy the German ego is the hardest thing! In fact the
intelligent, German, young generation is influenced by me against Adolf Hitler and against
any possibility of Adolf Hitler ever happening again in Germany. I am the greatest enemy
of Adolf Hitler's anywhere. And any country which is influenced by me, particularly the
young generation -- I don't care about the graveyards, I only trust the young blood, fresh
blood -- if they are in love with me, that means Adolf Hitler is impossible, destruction
is impossible. And it is true about other countries too.
If all over the world the intelligent young people become attuned with me, fall in love
with me, not only Adolf Hitler but even the third world war is impossible. To create a
third world war you will need all kinds of geniuses, talented people, young. And if they
have in some way fallen in love with me, they are not going to serve any destructive cause
at any price. They are going to simply refuse.
My influence is diametrically opposite to Adolf Hitler. The older generation may be
afraid. They have seen Adolf Hitler, they have seen his great influence, they have seen
people becoming almost mad after him. And he himself was a retarded mind. He himself was
not intelligent at all, just a third-rate person. He was refused admission to schools,
colleges. He was refused admission to the university -- he wanted to learn architecture.
Then, seeing everywhere rejection -- nobody could think him capable of anything great --
he joined the army.
That was the last resort of all the idiots, of all the fools, of all the stupid minds.
The army is the last resort: you don't need intelligence. In fact, intelligence is a
barrier in becoming a good soldier. Just as a retarded person cannot become a sannyasin,
an intelligent person cannot become a soldier. What does it mean to become a soldier? It
means you have accepted death as your profession. You don't have any sensitivity for what
you are doing. For a little salary and employment you have accepted to murder innocent
people, children, women, old people who have done no harm to you, to whom you are not even
introduced.
This needs something of a very low kind of person, almost the animal. Physically he
looks like a human being, mentally he is not. And these people have fought all the wars.
Of course, when you want to kill people you have to be ready to be killed any moment. They
have not only sold their intelligence and their freedom into the hands of some dictator,
for just a little employment they have become murderers. And simultaneously they have
accepted for that little salary to be suicidal also, because in war it is not necessarily
so that you will only kill and you will not be killed.
So those leaders were emphasizing, "Be ready to kill or be killed. The stake is
great: the nation's pride, the race and its ego, the religion and its messiah." All
these people have been teaching you just death, either somebody else's or your own.
I am simply amazed when people start comparing me with people who are absolutely
opposite to me. In anything, my influence is to live more, to allow others to live more,
to love more, to allow others to love more. Let this whole earth become a celebrating
planet. There is no reason to kill and be killed, and just for some fool like Adolf
Hitler, Mussolini, Joseph Stalin. If they want, they can commit suicide, they can hang
themselves from any tree, but why spread this poison? They spread this poison because it
fulfills their ego. The name of the nation, race, religion is just a facade, just a
curtain, a mask. Behind it is some monster who looks like a human being.
My message is for love, life, laughter.
But not only in Germany, everywhere there is fear, because it has always happened that
whenever there was a man of charismatic influence who can attract people so much that they
become identified with him, there has always been difficulty. That's why, because of their
past experience, they are afraid. All over the world there is great fear. And the strange
thing is, their fear is absolutely baseless.
I am a totally new kind of man, the beginning of a new humanity. But I can understand
them. They have only their past, and their past is long, and their experience is wrong.
And whenever there has been a man of influence, he has created trouble. Adolf Hitler
created the second world war. Now they are afraid; if their younger generation is being
influenced by me and is ready to do anything that I say, naturally fear arises. Again the
same situation may happen. But just tell them, with me it cannot happen. Without me it can
happen.
They are so afraid in Germany that perhaps sometime I may be coming to visit my
communes, they have already put a bogus law case against me. Just in case I want to enter
the country I can be immediately arrested. I have never been in Germany and I have never
done anything in Germany. But they can file a case against me.
That case will help them in many ways. First, they can refuse my entry. Secondly, they
can allow me to enter but refuse to let me out of the country. Thirdly, as long as the
case is not finished, they can force me to remain there. And they can put other cases. If
I win in one case, they can put another. There is no problem in it. Somebody simply goes
to the court and says that what Osho has said hurts my religious feeling. That is enough.
It is a very strange world in which we are living. If your religious feeling is hurt,
then it is your problem; get treated, or drop that religion which cannot help you to be
strong enough not to be hurt by a small criticism from anybody. And if your heart, your
religious feelings are disturbed, that simply shows they are superficial. You need a new
religion which goes deep to your roots and nobody can hurt you. Can any of my people be
hurt? None of my people have gone to the courts, filing cases, and had their religious
feelings hurt.
I have been condemned all over the world, in all the newspapers, in all the media. They
have called me all kinds of names. You could have easily gone to court. In every country
you could have fought that your religious feeling is hurt, but none of my people has even
thought about it. They simply laughed and ignored it. Filing a lawsuit means giving
attention to idiots. And whatsoever they are saying, they are saying without any argument.
They have no argument.
In India once there was a case against me -- of a similar type -- that I have
hurt the religious feelings of Hindus. That is enough in any country. This is very
strange. And why was the case accepted by the court? It went for almost one year and I had
to come back to Ahmedabad again and again for that case. They were simply wasting my time,
and the case was utterly stupid.
Speaking in Ahmedabad, amongst fifty thousand people, I had said that Mahatma Gandhi
used to listen to the story of Rama every day. Vinoba Bhave, one of his disciples, but a
very scholarly person, used to read the Ramayana, the story of Rama. It is read in every
house in India. The drama of Rama is played in every town, city, village, every year. Rama
is in every Hindu heart's center.
I said in the meeting that Vinoba was reading the story of Rama, and there comes a
passage where Rama's wife, Sita, is stolen. Just to leave some clues as to what direction
she has been taken, she went on throwing her ornaments on the way. Indian women have many
ornaments, and she was a queen, so she had enough ornaments. And it was bound -- she felt
it was certainly logical -- that Rama would find these ornaments and they would give him a
clue to the direction, and if he found more, that made it more certain. If he found more
he could reach to where she was being taken.
And he found -- precious diamonds, emeralds, rubies.... He asked his brother Laxmana,
"Do you recognize? Are these ornaments my wife's? I cannot recognize them myself
because whenever I am with Sita, she is so beautiful that I get lost into her. I don't pay
attention to her ornaments, so I cannot be certain that this ornament belongs to her. But
in this thick forest, who is going to throw rubies and diamonds and ornaments made of all
kinds of precious stones? Laxmana, perhaps you can find." Laxmana said, "Please
forgive me, because I have never seen Sita, except her feet, because I used to touch her
feet every morning." Your elder brother's wife in India is thought to be equal to
your mother. "And I have never seen her face, I have never seen above her feet. Yes,
if we come across the ornaments she used on her feet, I will recognize them
immediately."
Gandhi was a little puzzled. He said to Vinoba, "I don't understand. First, I
cannot understand Rama, that he lived for so many years and he could not recognize the
ornaments of his own wife. But perhaps he was still on his honeymoon. Sita may have been
very enchanting -- but why Laxmana never saw Sita?" Vinoba produced an argument --
which is not in the story, the argument is Vinoba's -- he produced an argument that
Laxmana never saw Sita's face because he wanted to remain celibate. He wanted to remain
unimpressed by Sita's beauty because he was under a strict discipline. And Gandhi accepted
the idea that it was because of a strict discipline; that Sita was so beautiful, perhaps
looking at her he may get passionately interested in her.
Gandhi accepted the idea. Not only that, it was because of this argument he gave Vinoba
the title of Acharya. Acharya means the master mind. He said, "The explanation that
you have given makes you a master. I could not have conceived that this would be the
explanation."
I told this whole thing to the people, fifty thousand people -- and they were all
Hindus, followers of Rama, followers of Gandhi, followers of Vinoba -- and I told them
that Laxmana's explanation is ugly. It simply shows that he was afraid to see the face.
This fear is already part of desire and passion. He was perfectly aware that if he saw
her, he would like to have her. All this must have been going on in his mind. He must have
been dreaming of Sita, because it was not that he had never seen her. Before the marriage,
Laxmana and Rama both had gone to see her.
In those days in India, the king's daughters used to have a certain ceremony. It was
called swayamvara. The princess chooses her husband by a certain device. Sita was
the daughter of a very big emperor. Hundreds of kings had come to marry her. The device
was that Sita's father had one very long bow, which was known as "Shiva's bow."
And the condition was that anybody who could just by hand break the bow into pieces, he
would be the person to marry Sita.
The bow was so heavy that many kings tried to take it up from the platform, but they
fell themselves. They could not move the bow. There was no question of breaking it just by
hand. Sita was sitting there ready with the garment. Whoever breaks the bow.... And
Laxmana was getting very eager. They had gone with their teacher, Vashishtha. The father
of Rama had sent Vashishtha to take care of the boys and see that they were not defeated,
that no cunningness was being used. Laxmana was getting so excited that he was asking
again and again, "Vashishtha, just give me permission and I will break it."
Vashishtha said, "You just keep quiet. Rama has the first right, he is your elder
brother. If he fails, then you have a chance."
Of course Rama broke the bow. Laxmana had seen Sita, seen the beauty of the woman. She
must have been a rare woman. Now he had to treat her as if she were his mother. You can
imagine his mind.
I explained to those people that Vinoba's explanation simply shows Vinoba's mind. It
has nothing to do with Laxmana. Vinoba was a celibate, and he knew perfectly what celibacy
means. Your dreams are full of girls, your whole day is continuously a fantasy of
sexuality. The repressed sex tries in every possible way to break your unnatural idea of
celibacy. Vinoba was afraid of meeting women, seeing women. He used to live isolated. He
never lived in Gandhi's ashram itself, because there were women there. He lived a few
miles away. He used to come every day at the prayer time, reading the story of Rama or
some other scripture, and would go back. But he lived in isolation. Around Gandhi's ashram
was dangerous: there were women, beautiful women, and he was a celibate monk.
The explanation that he gave was his own mind, and the explanation is a condemnation of
Laxmana. It makes him a repressed sexual person. It is a condemnation, it is not
appreciation. Neither Vinoba understands the psychology, nor Gandhi understands the
psychology, because he confers the degree of Acharya for this stupid explanation!
A case was filed against me, that somebody's religious feelings were hurt. I said to
the court, "This is strange. I have not said a single word against Laxmana. I was
criticizing Vinoba's explanation." Vinoba was alive then. I told the court, "You
call Vinoba, and I am ready to argue with him that his explanation is wrong -- not only
wrong, but condemnatory.
"And from where does this man get the idea that his Hindu feelings are hurt?
Vinoba is not yet a Hindu incarnation of God, and I am trying to save Laxmana, that this
is not the right explanation. In any Sigmund Freud's hands this explanation will mean
Laxmana is sexually so much repressed, so much afraid of his own repression that he cannot
look at the face of the woman."
The court finally agreed with me, but the court was also Hindu, so they were not daring
enough to call Vinoba also into the court. I said, "This is unfair. I criticized him,
this man says I have hurt his feelings. Now the court gives the judgment that I am not
speaking against Hinduism, I have spoken against the explanation. Now it is the duty of
the court to call Vinoba. Vinoba has hurt the Hindu mind and the Hindu mind's religious
feeling."
But Vinoba was a great Hindu leader, so naturally he was never called. The case was
really against him, not against me. But one strange thing happened. Whenever the case was
in the court, thousands of people would be there, inside the court, outside on the
verandas, on the lawn -- thousands of people, at least ten thousand people would come to
listen to what I was saying. And they were all Hindus. And when I won the case, the man
who had filed the case against me told the magistrate that he needed police protection. I
said, "For what? I need police protection because I have hurt the feelings of the
Hindu religion, religious people, and these ten thousand people are Hindus. And I have to
go out of this room -- these ten thousand people can kill me. And this fellow is asking
police support and police protection -- for what? Are these Hindus against him?"
They were. They could see the point clearly, they could see that this man is simply a
Hindu chauvinist. They could see that I had been unnecessarily harassed for the whole
year. And they were really angry, they were shouting and screaming and asking that the man
should be delivered to them, so they could teach him what it means to be "religiously
hurt."
The magistrate himself was afraid that the situation was dangerous. He told the man to
go inside, behind, which was the magistrate's private room, and just remain there until
everybody was gone. "No police protection will help, because these ten thousand
people.... From where can I bring the whole army to prevent these ten thousand people? The
court has a few policemen, but they are not enough to protect you. You just sit." And
he went inside the room and waited. I left, so naturally other people left by and by.
Perhaps he must have left just when the court was being closed, or he must have left with
the magistrate in his own car.
Exactly that type of case they have put in Germany. And soon they will be putting it in
every country. Because I told the Australian media, "Get ready, I am coming,"
now the whole of Australia is agog, afraid. Newspapers have started coming, saying that
people are very much disturbed, afraid that I may remain there, may not leave Australia.
But the man himself who was here was an intelligent man. I really loved the man, he was
not just a journalist.
He is answering the phone calls continuously coming to his studio. He informed us,
"I have never answered myself, my secretary answers, but this time I am answering
myself because I can say to them that I have been there, I have seen the man, I have seen
the commune that is there, and they are beautiful people, and you need not be afraid. And
don't get unnecessarily excited by rumors. There is no danger." But it is now all
over Australia, a great wave of fear. I have not gone there and there is not much
possibility.
But my people are there, and my people are growing in every country. And in every
country my people will have to face the same problems. They cannot believe, the
politicians and others, that I am not going to use my influence politically. It is
something inconceivable to those retarded people, that there can be a man who has great
influence and is not going to use it in any way.
My influence is that of love. I love my people, and I would not like to put my people
in any kind of destructive situation.
But what can you do with people who are so afraid that they cannot even come to visit
the commune to see and experience themselves that there is nothing to fear? My people are
peaceful and wherever they will go they will bring the peace, the silence, the rejoicing.
They will bring songs to every country and ecstasy to every land.
Our war is totally different. They don't understand. We are spreading a certain kind of
atmosphere around the world which can prevent wars, which can prevent Adolf Hitlers, which
can prevent nuclear weapons being used.
Osho,
In your vision of the world being one commune, is it still so that the Italians should be
the cooks, the French the lovers and the Germans the organizers?
Most probably, because who can cook better than the Italians? And in my commune
everybody is to do the best he can. Yes, the Germans will be the organizers. They have
proved -- and I have a greater number of Germans than from any other country -- they are
the best organizers, the most reliable people. You can trust them, they can never betray.
They certainly have a very strong spirit.
But nobody is going to force them. If they want to change places they can change, and
that is how it is happening in my communes all over the world. People don't remain stuck
to one job, they want to learn many more things. The doctor wants to learn plumbing, the
plumber wants to be a mechanic, the mechanic wants to be a cook. The commune is also a
university. It is so many things together. It is a religion, it is a university, it is the
birth place for the new man.
So my feeling is that Italians will try to learn how to organize, although in the
beginning their organization will be greasy, lousy, spaghetti all over. Nobody is going to
condemn them, that's natural. The Germans cooking, you can understand, Koran Grove will be
full. If we can survive German cooking, that means a miracle has happened, but we will
try. We are open to all possibilities.
And it is already happening that way. In fact the moment you enter a commune nobody
recognizes you as Italian, as German, as Indian, as American. All those things simply
disappear; you are just my people -- the red people. A new identity comes up and throws
out all old identifications.
I don't know who is a German, who is an Italian, who is Greek, who is Spanish. I don't
know myself, except for a few people who had come to me in the very beginning, so I know
them more personally. That's why when I want to say something about Germans I will use
Haridas, because except Haridas I don't know any German. If I have to talk about the
English, I have to talk about Teertha because I don't know anybody else. If I have to talk
about Italians, then Asheesh is the only Italian.
But there are many and now there is no possibility for me to be acquainted the way I am
with Teertha or Haridas or Asheesh. That way is not possible any more. I will love you but
I will not know your name. I will do everything for you but I will not know your name,
your race, your country. And the thing has become so enormous and big, and it is expanding
with such speed, you cannot expect me to. In the beginning, when there were only a few
people who could be counted on fingers, naturally I knew their name, their country, their
background and they had the chance of being more intimate. In the beginning it was
possible.
But don't feel that those who have come late are deprived of anything, because my work
has really begun now. After I started speaking again, those three years that I remained
silent were just to give a gap. All that I had done before that was only a preparation;
then a three years' gap so that all those who want to escape can escape before my real
work starts.
So those who have come just now, they should not feel deprived. My work has begun just
now. Now I am talking directly to you. There is no Krishna between me and you and no Jesus
between me and you. I am cutting their heads right and left and creating a direct passage.
I am not allowing even people whom I love -- Bodhidharma, Chuang Tzu -- I am not going to
let anyone stand between me and you. I am going to chop their heads. Of course, lovingly.
I can ask them, "Forgive me, but I have to chop your head because now nobody stands
between me and my people."
However beautiful is Heraclitus, and however much I have loved Pythagoras and
Zarathustra, it does not matter. That is my personal affair. As far as you are concerned I
am not going to let anybody else stand between me and you. So nobody needs to feel that he
has missed something -- no!
My work has begun just now and you have all come in the right moment. Those who have
remained in the preparatory period, in the silent period, of course, are more fortunate.
But if you have courage enough you can take a long jump and be in the front line with the
old sannyasins. It only needs courage. They had enough time to go slowly, step by step.
The new sannyasins will have to jump four steps at a time. Soon you will be all in the
same line. And that's my effort, that's why I am giving you so many shocks. Shocks are
particularly good to keep people jumping. I don't let them stand in one place. Another
electric shock and they jump four, five steps immediately. A day or two I may let them
rest there, but not more than that.
Osho,
Why is the media so nervous around you?
Because they have never come across a man like I am. The media knows politicians,
popes, other kinds of leaders. They are all afraid of the media and nervous. The
politician is nervous, he has reasons to be nervous. And the journalist is assertive and
aggressive, and the politician is simply dodging and trying to save his skull.
A few days ago I saw an interview with Rajiv Gandhi, who has become now the prime
minister of India. He was here in America. The interviewer goes on continuously hammering
and Rajiv Gandhi looks almost frozen, as if any moment his breathing is going to stop. And
I can see the reason, because the interviewer tried in different ways to get Rajiv Gandhi
to say something against Russia. That Rajiv Gandhi cannot do. Before coming to America,
first he had gone to Russia. In fact, he must have been prepared there in Russia, what to
say and what not to say, because India is almost in the hands of Russia. It is not a
communist country but on the very verge. Any day it is going to become a communist
country.
The interviewer was also trying to force Rajiv to say something against America. That
he cannot do. In America, he has come to create more friendship, he has come to get more
uranium for nuclear weapons in India, he cannot say anything against America. He cannot
praise America, either, because Soviet Russia will get upset. He cannot praise Soviet
Russia because America will get upset. So, naturally, the politician is nervous before the
media.
I have no problem. I can say exactly what I want to say. All the media become nervous
because they know they will not be able even to report the things I say, because if they
take all these things to the editor, perhaps they may be thrown out of the job. They are
nervous because what I am saying is also hurting their prejudices. They are human beings.
First they are human beings, then they may be journalists; first Christians, then they may
be journalists. And when I am hitting on Jesus they want to scream, but they cannot do
that. Naturally, it becomes a nervous feeling. They forget to ask what they wanted to ask.
They have never met a man like me who has nothing to lose, who can say anything, who does
not belong to your society, who does not care about respectability.
Now the pope is continuously concerned that his respectability as the greatest
religious leader in the world should not be affected by any statement. All his statements
are prepared by other bishops, looked at by a committee, everything is edited. He is
simply a spokesman, he is not speaking himself. The whole church, the Catholic hierarchy
is decisive. He has just to speak what they teach him, what they tell him to say.
Another fundamental reason they get nervous is that I am an absolutely free man. I
don't care about contradicting myself, so they cannot put me into a corner by saying,
"You said this fifteen years ago, now you are saying that." They cannot put me
into any corner. I say forget it, to hell with those fifteen years. Whatever I am saying
now is true now. Tomorrow I do not promise I will say the same thing, because I don't
bother about consistency, about respectability, about what people will think. I have no
reason to be nervous, I simply enjoy their nervousness.
It is strange, something new. The table with the water is placed by the side of the
person who is being interviewed. When he feels nervous he can start drinking just to do
something: get busy, forget nervousness, and meanwhile he has time also to think what to
say next. Here it is just the opposite. The water and everything is placed by the side of
the media. And I see them plucking grapes, taking water, tossing and turning in their
chair, sometimes looking at the photographer, sometimes at the director. They will never
forget the interview, because that kind of interview is never going to happen to them
unless they come here again, to have another nervous breakdown.
But my work is first to give you a nervous breakdown, because only from there is there
a possibility of a spiritual breakthrough. Breakdown to breakthrough, that's the whole
story.
Osho: The Last Testament, Volume 1, Chapter 21